Ep #90: 5 Pillars of Self-Worth Every Child Needs to Thrive with Nellie Harden

What are the five pillars of self-worth? I didn’t know this until today. I was speaking with Nellie Harden. And Nellie is a wife, a mother of four daughters. She says she’s a former worth chaser, trauma survivor and an author and speaker in the space of family life and leadership. And she works to really help those who impact the lives of young women to strategically build a foundation for worth, esteem and confidence so that they’re going to be okay when they get older. She talked a lot about a strategy for helping our children develop a sense of self-worth and how important that is.

Another thing that we spoke about was really the difference between consequences and punishment. She talks about discipline is just a form of teaching. And so, when we teach kids to self-discipline, discipline yourself so that others don’t have to, was her phrase. I love it so much. But discipline is just teaching. And then she says that consequences should be leading to an outcome. And that punishment, there’s really no angle to, it’s just a round shame. This conversation was amazing. You do not want to miss this one, it’s coming up right after this.

Welcome to the Raising Healthy Kid Brains podcast where moms and teachers come to learn all about kids’ brains, how they work, how they learn, how they grow and simple tips and tricks for raising the most resilient, kind, smart, compassionate kids we can. All while having lots of grace and compassion for ourselves because you know what? We all really need and deserve that too. I am your host, Amy Nielson. Let’s get ready to start the show.

Amy: Hi Nellie, welcome to the show. I’m so happy to have you on today.

Nellie: Hi, Amy, it is so great to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Amy: Okay, I’m so excited about this conversation because we’re talking about kind of the space between what kids say and what they really need. And I think everyone’s kind of nodding their head right now. Yes, this is a thing and it doesn’t stop when they’re little. It’s kind of a thing that keeps going. And so, I feel like in teenage land, I’m kind of getting to experience that again. So I’m excited to kind of talk about this and dig into it. But before we kind of get into all the meat of that conversation, can you tell us just a little bit about you and how you got into doing what you do.

Nellie: Yeah. So, growing up, I had a childhood that was filled with a lot of joy, but also a lot of tumultuousness. My dad died when I was super young. Mom got remarried. I had a brother and sister then when I was a teenager. And then I left home when I was 17. I graduated early and I moved seven hours away from home to a place I had been to once overnight for orientation. So, I am from Michigan and I moved down to lower Indiana. And so, it was a shock to say the least.

And so, I really didn’t know or have a semblance of myself back then or have the vocabulary to know that I didn’t have worth or esteem or confidence within myself. I just had, what, back then, I’m dating, I know, but Teen, Bop Magazine, 17 Magazine, you know what I mean? It would tell you and you would figure out in those little quizzes or what have you but I really didn’t have a sense of self. So, the moment the minivan disappeared, as my parents and my brother and sister drove off, I really was just like, “What now? Where do I go to now?”

And I had a [inaudible], and I had a roommate whose name, no joke, was Susie Pop from Florida. And I swear one day she’s going to hunt me down and be like, “I have heard that you’ve said my name on air so many times.” But anyway, so Susie Pop from Florida, and this girl just seemed, again, that surface that she knew what she was doing. And I was like, “Okay, I guess this is what we do in college.” And the next eight weeks, just really just crushed any semblance of identity that I had coming into there. And I went through many traumas, I went through many dramas during that first eight weeks.

So, I really turned in on myself and I went into biology and psychology. So, in my attempted healing, which I didn’t even know exactly what I was healing from until decades later, honestly. In my attempted healing, I’m sitting there learning and getting in the trenches of biology and psychology for all that time. So, my first career 1.0 was actually in the animal field. That’s where humpbacks come in if you read part of that or read about that and so I worked in that field.

But then we almost lost my husband. We almost lost my daughter. It was just a turn of events and I could fill this entire hour with talking about those, which I won’t because I want to get to what your listeners want to talk about. But my point being that I turned the corner into the much more messy human field well over a decade ago. And then was also given four daughters within four years to raise. And so now I am inundated in my personal life, my professional life with adolescent young women. My daughters are all between 14 and 19 right now. And then I work out in public in the world as.

So, my entire life revolves around adolescent young women right now and adolescents in general. But yeah, so I’ve been working in this field with positive family disciplines. And then when COVID hit I really turned a corner to help parents that are specifically raising young women today in order to build this foundation before they leave home so they’re equipped for the world. So that’s a tiny synopsis of how I got to where I am.

Amy: That’s a lot. And I am a mom of eight, not eight, I have eight kids. I have six daughters. And so, this is such a thing. And I have them ranging everywhere from eight up to adulthood, so it is such a thing. And I think one of the things I’d love to talk about is how we start working with the little ones to kind of build this up into maybe making it slightly easier once we get into adolescence. And so yeah, so talk to me, so we’re talking kind of about this idea of sense of self. And I’m just hearing this over and over and over again, and how important this is.

Can you talk to me a little bit about what that is and why that’s important for children to have because I feel like in so many ways, we’re a classmate, we’re a teammate. We’re kind of built or trained to be in these groups and be a part of a group. And then I’m thinking of Brené Brown, who says, “You can’t ever belong in a group until you belong to yourself.” So, talk to me about this sense of self and what that is and why that matters.

Nellie: Love Brené, by the way, so yes, all of her work, ingested it all. So anyway, first of all, as parents, I think it’s really, really important to understand that you’re not raising the younger version of yourself. You are raising another human being, so that’s really, really important and a huge mind shift for some parents out there. But also, if you have multiple children, you are raising, in my case, I say four automatically, but you are raising different humans. You are not raising all the same humans.

And I mean you have eight, I mean kudos to you, a huge round of applause and I just have four. But I call mine, four corners of a square, I even have twins in the middle there but they could not be more different. And they’re all bringing unique qualities to this world. How they relate to the world is different. How they learn is different. I mean information is always coming in and going out, it’s like we breathe. And how each one of us, you and I, every one of us, take in information is how we learn, whether that is learning a recipe, learning in a calculus class or a history class or at a job or what have you.

Anything we take in is learning and anything we put out is teaching. We just needed to make sure that what we’re putting out is quality teaching. We don’t want to put garbage out into the world, there’s plenty of it out there. We don’t need to pollute the world any more with what we’re putting out there. And so, understanding your kid on an individual basis, how do they learn and how do they teach? How do they learn and how do they teach? And getting to know them, then you can start really establishing connection, communication and clarity with them.

But if you’re trying to teach them in a way that they do not learn, you are going to hit massive roadblocks. It’s going to be like when you’re in a foreign country and you’re on a bus tour and they’re showing you all these things and you do not understand a word that they’re saying. And so, you want to be able to understand what they’re saying so you can take it in and provide that communication and clarity, especially as a parent.

I call parents architects. We are building, designing and planning the beginning of someone else’s life. You can’t do that if there’s a communication barrier between you. So that’s one of the first things that you want to do is get to know them, how they relate to the world, how they teach and how they learn. And there’s a lot of different resources out there for that as well. And I know that you’ve talked about that in some of your other shows that you’ve had too.

Amy: Yeah, I love that, so I’m taking notes. I’m typing all the things. I love that, that learning, it’s kind of like breathing, everything we take in is learning, everything we put out is teaching. I love imagery, it’s beautiful. So how do we figure that out? How do we know? Because we’re with these humans starting when they’re little. So, I have five children I gave birth to and then I got three bonus kids about five months ago. So, this is where my eight kids come from.

And they are different, they are really. Even my five, same parents, everything the same, whatever, they’re not the same and you can’t parent them the same. So how do we figure that out? Is it trial and error? Are there ways to try to kind of notice what that’s like? What do you recommend for that?

Nellie: Well, here’s the thing as a parent, just as much as, I mean, you think about it in the capacity of architecture. Just as much as you are building, designing and planning the beginning of someone else’s life, you also need to be a student of the craft and that craft is your child. So, it’s going to take a lot of observation work. Watch them when they are with other people and when you walk up to a stranger and, “Oh, hello,” are they assertive, go up there, “Hello, my name is so and so.” And you’re like, “Okay.”

So, they have that communication confidence, they’re an oral learner and teacher right there. So, they like to talk and they learn that way. You have one, that is, I’m hiding behind the leg. I don’t want any part of this. Okay, well, how do you connect to that child? Maybe you need to get down, maybe on a knee so you’re at the same eye level. Maybe you need to bring in some sort of connection point. Maybe they like to color. Okay, sit down and color, see if they come over. Just be like, “Hey, this is what I’m doing. Have you ever thought about coloring?” “Well, yeah, I like to color.” “Awesome. Why don’t you come over.”

And that could be a picture learner right there. That is me. You mentioned imagery, I am a picture person through and through. I do not do well when someone reads me a book, but if I read it I’m okay. If one of my kids, my 14 year old is like, “Mom, do you understand this, it says blah blah blah?” And I’m like, “Your words are rushing to me right now. I need to actually see the words. I don’t understand what you’re saying.”

But on the other point, I mean I homeschooled for seven years. I was able to then figure out, okay this child needs to hear it. This child needs to see it. This child needs to do it. And so, it’s just different. And so, it really takes being a student of your child, just as much as you are a teacher to your child as well.

Amy: I love that so much, we’re students of our children. That’s so good. Okay, so then going back to this idea of sense of self, so we’re paying attention to them. We’re kind of reaching them at their communication style or being able to understand the language that they speak and the language that they give. What are other ways that we really help them kind of gain that sense of self, the confidence to just be in their body and be who they are and be them so that, yeah, they don’t feel this, as much of the pull? I think there’s always the pull but how do we do that, what are some other ideas you have?

Nellie: Well, so here’s the thing too and this pertains so much to today and going along with being a student of your child. you want to really get to know them. And I recommend that every parent have one-on-one time with each of their kids each week. And that is a one-on-one time that is planned, it is stationary, i.e. it is every Tuesday night at 9:00pm or every Thursday at 4:00pm or what have you. So that these deeper conversations that you have with your kids don’t just happen when they’re in trouble or there’s something that needs to be discussed.

They know that I will have mom or dad, again, that one-on-one time, mom or dad each week so that we talk about stuff. And sometimes it’s a hard conversation. Sometimes it’s really fun. Sometimes it’s just, “Hey, what are you working on?” Or we’re working on something together but building that relationship. Because here’s the thing, if you don’t know them that intimately, then later on when they start to, ‘this is me and I’m just expressing myself’, are they really or are they following the latest trend that is happening at school online, on TikTok, on whatever it is that they’re on?

And so, you need to be able to see, to have transparency through the facade that they’re trying to put on themselves and understand maybe why. Why are you seeking worth through trying to do this for your friend and people pleasing and comparison? I know you and this isn’t you. And so how else can you find your worth? Not shutting down an avenue but rerouting an avenue for them. It’s really hard to stop a habit. It’s much less hard and tricky to reroute a habit to something that’s more effective and positive for them.

But again, being a student of them, getting to know them, having them speak into your life, and you speak into theirs because you want to break down this antiquated hierarchy that exists in parenting children. I do believe, I look at the parent or the family as a team and parents are the team captains, I mean hands down, absolutely. But it’s not, we’re sitting on Mount Olympus and you are down here and you have absolutely no say. What’s that old saying, to be seen and not heard.

Amy: Because I said so, yeah.

Nellie: Yeah, exactly. And to be fair, it gets to a point, I have a 14 year old and 14 is just so 14 sometimes.

Amy: Yes, I do know.

Nellie: Yes, and my husband and I look at each other sometimes, we’re like, “Oh, 14, frontal lobe’s not all the way there yet, okay, but it’s okay, we’ll get there.” Yes, and so anyway, we have given her this leeway and had so many talks with her about things. But then when she’s like, “Why?” And it does get to a point sometimes when I just have to turn to her and say, “Because this is the way it is right now. We can talk about it more later and I understand if you have questions and that is okay, but now is not the time.” And that’s okay to say that.

It is absolutely okay to put up a healthy boundary. You’re not negating them. You’re not saying, “Because I say so and this case is closed and it’s never opening again.” It’s just saying, “Not right now.” And that could be because you’re in a not so great place, physical logistical space to do that or you’re just not in a good mental space to do that. And you’re like, “I will not explain myself well right now so I’m going to put this off just a little bit till everything is more calm.”

Amy: And I think being open about that is so good in so many ways, because we’re modeling that behavior for them and we’re not acting like we’re on top of Mount Olympus. We’re saying, “I’m human.” And I’ll tell my kids sometimes, I’ll be like, “I don’t know if this is the right thing or not, but I’m the parent. And this feels right to me right now, so I’m going to do it and I’m open to your feedback and we can talk about it. But this is what I need to do right now because this is what feels right. So, this is what we’re going to do and then we can talk about it.”

I’m still the parent but it’s not like I’m just the overarching ruler and you are my subjects and must do what I say kind of situation.

Nellie: Absolutely. I think it’s so important to get their feedback. And so, there is a big difference between discipline. Discipline means teaching. You go back to the very first universities we had in this country of the United States and there weren’t majors. There were disciplines that you would go into. Discipline is teaching. And consequences are natural a lot of times or they have to be imposed because of something that went wrong. And a consequence needs to lead toward the goal of the desired outcome.

Then you have punishment and punishment along the line, got confused and synonymous with discipline and consequences and it’s not. Punishment is just, you are bad and this is happening and shame on you type of thing. There’s no end goal to punishment except to demean and make them feel inferior and less than in some way.

So, we want to really get back on the discipline and consequence bandwagon again because so many of our kids are being stuck in this punishment merry-go-round that’s going around and there’s no growth there whatsoever. And whatever they are being punished for, you aren’t ever going to achieve that because you’re stuck as soon as you’re just throwing out punishments.

Amy: Because that’s not goal focused. I love that.

Nellie: Exactly, yeah. And so, we really want to get back to a place where discipline and consequences are moving forward in a goal. But my point is, you can absolutely ask them and turn it back on them. They made a poor choice. Life is all about choices. They make a poor choice and it’s, well, what do you think a consequence of this is? What are the natural consequences? Okay, yeah. And what do you think a consequence needs to be because you made this decision in order to help you make a better decision in the future?

And when you put that on them and they really start thinking, they start understanding much, much better that their choice was not a good choice. Versus if you’re just throwing a punishment at them, they get angry and then they’re like, “No, that choice was a good choice and I’m going to make it again and make it harder and bigger.” And so, it’s much different to focus on and get their input on that.

Amy: I love that so much. And this is something that I have just noticed is magical with my kids. And I tell my kids, we talked about the family dynamic and the team captains. So, in my family, I kind of do, “So here’s the deal, I’m kind of your coach. And my goal is to help you get to be this amazing, awesome adult that I don’t need to go to college with. I want to come visit but I don’t want to go in your suitcase. You get to decide all your own things. But that’s a big responsibility so I’m just trying to get you to that.”

So, all along this path, starting as early as we can, we’re going to help you start making your own decisions. I am raising you to be your own decision maker but that’s not, I just give it all to you when you’re five years old and expect you to make, that’s too big, but as much as I can give you. And then we just grow with it. And if it looks like we gave you too much and there’s been some struggles, maybe we come back a little bit or whatever, anyway, so that’s kind of how I talk about it.

And I try to include them in all those things. And it’s amazing when you include them in that conversation. It is so focused forward and it’s focused towards something that they want. It’s focused towards their freedom and their empowerment and all those things. And then yeah, like you said, you asked them, “Well, what do you think,” is a good thing. And then I think they get kind of invested in it. I think they’re pretty good about valuing that. So that’s so good.

I wanted to go back to something we were talking about a little bit ago because I think it was so good. When a child is doing something that we don’t feel represents who they are, their sense of self. And then one of the things I’ve tried and I wonder if this is something you agree with, is trying to notice, so what were you trying to get out of that? What is it that you need? What are you trying to get out of that behavior? And then you kind of talked about shifting it, what is the way that’s actually within your value system or within your whatever that would help you get that?

Nellie: Absolutely. So, there are five pillars of worth that every human, you and I and everyone that ever was, is and will be has. And our kids, especially during adolescence, especially during under construction brain season, frontal lobe connections being made, it really is, they need to, we all need to be seen, be heard, be loved, belong and have a purpose. And if you look at everything, I’ve yet to see something that challenges this, everything that our young adolescents are facing today, all the way from, some even earlier than six but really six all the way up through 25.

And when you’re looking at this, when they are talking about these issues that they’re having, it is usually the polar opposite of one or more of those. I don’t feel like anyone sees me. I don’t feel like I belong here. I don’t feel like I have a purpose here at all. No one wants to listen to me. So, it’s all of these things right here. And so, these five are what you really want to focus on helping your child understand. And the first model of that is going to be from you as a parent, to hear them see them, love them, make sure that they know they belong in your home and that they have a purpose in your home too.

They’re not just living there, they have a purpose. They’re invested in that home. And so, like I said, the first order of business is for parents to really bring that into their life. and then they’re going to learn simultaneously which gets tricky, how to do that for themselves. How do they make sure that they’re really listening to themselves, that they actually really see themselves while the world is also shouting at them, especially these days with everything that is coming in through every screen possible.

And so that’s where it can get kind of tricky, but that one-on-one time we talked about, really understanding their learning and teaching styles and how to connect, communicate and bring clarity for them is so, so, so important. So those five things, a lot of times we see our kids, either saying things that are outlandish. They come downstairs and they say something so rude or out of seeming character for them. And I understand that you need to be seen or heard right now, but what do you think is a better way that you can do that than what you just did here? So, it’s rerouting that but filling the need that they were looking for.

Amy: I love that. That’s so good, those five things. And so, we start this really, really young. If I could just pick your brain. So, if I have a young kid and I’m trying to help them feel like they have a purpose because the other ones I feel like I’ve got, being seen, heard, loved, belong in a family. What would purpose look like for small children? A lot of our listeners have small children, how do we help them have purpose?

Nellie: So, purpose, especially for small kiddos would look like where they are at in the family. So, sibling relationships are a big one there. Chores are a big one there. And so, if you have an animal, maybe they’re responsible for feeding them, and you could do this as early as three, you would help of course. But, “Remember, Josh, it’s time to feed Lucky,” I don’t know. “It’s time to feed Lucky, come on.” And you’re there and you’re watching them but you are giving them the responsibility of feeding the dog.

And so, they know, I have a job to do. I have a purpose here. And then with being a sibling, I mean, my oldest was two when I had twins. Let me tell you, she had some purpose. And so, I’m like, “I need this, I need this, can you help?” And then she would sit, I was nursing the twins and she would sit and nurse her babies next to me, type of thing and she would help me with them. And then when the twins, my youngest, was born the day after the twins’ second birthday and so then they were helping and doing everything too.

And so right there just that sibling, and my twins are about to be 17, and my youngest is about to be 15 in just a couple of weeks, and birthdays right after [inaudible]. But even then, having discussions still today of, “You are her big sister for a reason and she needs your voice in her life. She needs mine, she needs your dad’s and her other sisters too, but you she needs in her life. And so, I need you to show up in the way that will help grow her.” So, it is a constant, this sibling positioning is a constant role and purpose that they can play.

But again, doing that and chores in the house and making sure that things are picked up. And I helped with a while back, was sending postcards to grandma. And it was the child’s responsibility, and they were four or five. It’s your job, so, what are you going to write to grandma this week? It’s time for you to do another postcard. And it was just making sure that they knew and then it was great for grandma. It was great for them. They were working on handwriting. And also, it was a responsibility of theirs. So, responsibility really breeds into that purpose.

Amy: I love several of the words you used there because I think when we think of chores we’re like, these really undesirable things that you have to do so that you’re not growing up to be lazy and not a good person. It feels like they’ve had such a negative connotation but I love some of the words that you used. And my gosh, if we could have this shift in our brains, that when we’re giving our children chores, it’s to give them purpose and responsibility.

And that just shifts it instead of it being like, oh my gosh, it’s just so much easier to load the dishwasher myself than to try to go downstairs and get the kids to come upstairs to load the dishwasher, which I would be done with by the time they got up there or whatever.

And also, for the kids, when we’re talking to them and saying, “Hey, there’s a reason that I’m having you do this before your screen time and it’s not just to punish you because you’re a naughty kid that’s going to go do screen time before you do this. It’s because this is helping you build. This is a responsibility, we need you in our family to help with these things, and it’s going to help you have purpose and be a part of what we’re creating here.” I don’t know, I just love those words for that.

And if we can do that shift in our brain, how the wording would come out differently when we’re passing on these chores or responsibilities to our kids. Or even sometimes I feel like when we’ve got all the kids really close together, and my gosh, you had a lot really close together and then it can get overwhelming. And I just need you to do this here or whatever, and I don’t know. I think maybe to some extent that can be helpful too. But how do we word it in a way of it does seem to give them purpose.

I had one daughter who was having a really bad day, I have got teenagers/adults. And one was having a really bad day and the other sister stepped in and was just taking care of her and coming and being there for her. I’m going to come and do the same for you. I’m going to make you popcorn and we’re going to watch a show together, we’re going to, whatever.

And it was two days later, the other sister was having a really hard day. And this sister comes and gets her and has a driver’s license and took her out for ice-cream, whatever. And they can be there for each other in a way that I, as a mom, I’m here all the time. But there’s something different about it being your sister, I don’t know. It’s more of a peer, almost kind of a thing. And so yeah, but helping them see the value in that, that purpose in that. It’s so beautiful. Can we do that when they’re little? It sounds like we can do that when they’re little too, and help them kind of fill that.

Nellie: Absolutely. And also, verbiage wise, not, “I need you to go do this.” It is more of, “I depend on you to do your part. Can you tell me what you depend on me for?” And nothing might come out at first. But then you’re like, “Well, why don’t we think about this a little bit more?” And then they can start to name those things. Yeah, and you can depend on me, you can trust me and count on me to do these things. I need to be able to depend on you and count on you to do these things because this is all of our home.

So, we live down in the south, our home and we moved from a very tiny home to a very big home. Where all four girls shared one room, to all four girls have their own room and right before the pandemic hit in 2019. But in order to take care of this home, we all live here. And well, my oldest is off at college, but when she’s home, she’s a part of this too. So once a month we have home stewardship day and that is a big old list that comes out.

And we go around and everyone knows to be home that day because we need to be a good steward of our home and everyone’s cleaning one corner or another until it’s all done and then we can go. Because responsibilities always come before recreation in our home. It’s a saying we say, 24/7, responsibilities before recreation. And it’s because we need to be able to take care of one another and take care of what we’ve been given. But anyway, just making sure that we’re all working together.

It’s never a time where, which this is definitely different than when I was a kid, where kids are up working and parents are sitting down watching TV, doing whatever, whatever and the kids will go take care of it. The kids will do it. And what did that say to us? We’re just free servants at that point.

Amy: That’s how I felt growing up. I don’t know if that was an accurate story, but that was definitely a story I told myself when I was little.

Nellie: Yeah, it felt that way. But when we’re working, we’re all working together toward a common goal and so just modeling that for them is important.

Amy: I love so many things. I’m taking all the notes. Responsibility before recreation. I love that. I’m always like, “You’ve got to get your chores done first.” But I love the wording for it, I think it is just such a good thing for reframing it and stewardship day. We’re going to take care of what we have, just so healthy and beautiful and it brings us all together. Oh, my goodness, this has been so good. Thank you so much for sharing. We’re about out of time. I just want to ask you, is there anything else that you want to leave us with before we go?

Nellie: I would just love to leave you with another saying that we say in our house all the time because when we’re raising our families, the goal is to develop them and build them into self-disciplined leaders of their lives. And so that is a person that has their own self-discipline. They see an obstacle, they can formulate a plan, actually do the plan and get to the other side toward a goal. And so, one of the things that we say here all the time is, discipline yourself so others don’t have to.

And that’s just always in the back of their head. And those two things, responsibilities before recreation and discipline yourself so others don’t have to, including me, discipline yourself so I don’t have to discipline, come in and discipline you and have this discussion. And then just formulate a lot of great rich conversations about that and have that one-on-one time. Get to know them so you can have that connection, communication and clarity.

Amy: And I’m just tying that back to the discipline yourself so others don’t have to. And then going back to discipline is just teaching, it’s just teaching. My gosh, we’re just teaching ourselves, And if we teach ourselves, then other people don’t kind of have to do it. We have more control over it. It’s more powerful to be in that space, and we’re just teaching, that’s what it is. It’s so good. I love it so much. Thank you so much for coming to talk with me today. And where do I send my listeners to come and find more about you and what you do and more of what you share?

Nellie: Absolutely. Well, thank you for having me. And you can go to nellieharden.com. You’ll find all the goodies there from working and communities and downloads and weekly communications that you can get to, so it’s all there.

Amy: Awesome. We will put a link in the show notes for everyone. And have an amazing rest of your day. And thank you for joining us and oh my goodness, I have so many things I’m going to take with me from this one. But I think my biggest takeaway from today is just this reframing of discipline and the idea of it being, and responsibility. And how I’m going to word that with my kids and how I’m going to kind of reshape that for myself. And I think it’s going to be good. I love it. It’s amazing. Thank you so much.

Nellie: Thank you.

Don’t you just love all the fun things we’re learning on the show together? Well, we wanted to give you a chance to practice a little bit of it at home. And so, we made you a special freebie just for being a listener here and you can grab it at planningplaytime.com\special-freebie. That is planningplaytime.com\special-freebie. So, what this freebie is, I’ll tell you, is an amazing alphabet activity that you can start using with your kiddos and it is based in play and is so fun.

You can use dot markers with it, you can use Q-tip painting, you could use circle cereal. There’s all kinds of options, but you can print it out today and get started. Just head over to planningplaytime.com\special-freebie and we’ll send that to you right away.

Thank you for hanging out with me today for this fun chat on Raising Healthy Kid Brains. If you want to see more of what we’re doing to support kiddos and their amazing brains, come visit us on our website planningplaytime.com. See you next week.