Ep #20: Building Your Child’s Vocabulary and Language with Lenora Edwards

What should your child’s language development look like at ages two, three, four, five years old? Today I’m talking with speech pathologist, Lenora Edwards. Lenora is an ASHA Board Certified speech pathologist and Chief Knowledge Officer with Better Speech. Since obtaining her certificate of Clinician Competence in 2010 she has worked with individuals of all ages from little ones who are learning to understand and express themselves, to adults who want to improve their speaking skills and become more fluent and effective communicators.

And we had an amazing conversation about building vocabulary and language. She talks about receptive and expressive language, the difference between those. She talks about how many words a child should be able to say when they’re talking at ages two, three, four, five years old. But also how many instructions they can hear from us. So if we give them say an instruction to go do something, how many steps of that they can handle in their brain.

She also talks about how we ask them questions and the number of choices or options that we give them and how to bring that back to simplify it if that’s what they’re needing and if they’re feeling stressed. She gave some great ideas on how to build language and vocabulary with your children as well as talking about peer to peer language versus peer to authority language. There are so many good tips in this episode and it’s all coming up next on this episode of the Raising Healthy Kid Brains podcast.

Welcome to the Raising Healthy Kid Brains podcast where moms and teachers come to learn all about kids’ brains, how they work, how they learn, how they grow and simple tips and tricks for raising the most resilient, kind, smart, compassionate kids we can. All while having lots of grace and compassion for ourselves because you know what? We all really need and deserve that too. I am your host, Amy Nielson. Let’s get ready to start the show.

Amy: Alright, hi, Lenora, welcome to the show. I’m so happy to have you on today.

Lenora: Thank you so much for having me, Amy, it’s so good to connect with you again.

Amy: Yes, this is so good. Okay, so tell me a little bit about speech therapy and what is the role of speech therapy?

Lenora: So oftentimes when we hear the phrase, speech therapy, a lot of people will think it’s just articulation. But as a speech language pathologist I often tell people, we work from the neck and up. And the reason we work from the neck and up is because we are well versed in what we refer to as oral motor skills and making sure people can safely swallow. We do work with little ones and adults actually on their articulation.

So when they’re talking about speech, talking about the articulation, the fluency and the vocal quality of how somebody’s speaking, their voice.

And then we also work with language, our ability to understand language, everything your listeners are doing right now, that’s the receptive part of language. And then we have the expressive part of language which is everything that I’m doing as I’m talking, how I’m waving my words and grammatical sentences and things like that. And then we also work with cognitive skills, things like memory, reasoning, problem solving, sequencing. So as a speech language pathologist we truly work from the neck and up.

Amy: That is so cool and I’ve never heard that, complete of, inclusive of a definition of what you do. So that was fascinating. And I loved hearing about the receptive and expressive language and that those are different. So how we are hearing and understanding language and then also being able to express language. Let’s talk about what that looks like maybe at some of the different age groups, for our preschool, kinder, first grade age groups, what does some of that look like, what are we looking for in say preschool kids as far as language development?

Lenora: Absolutely, that’s a great question. So in terms of language development, when it comes to receptive language skills, we want these little ones to make sure that they can follow one and two step commands and three step commands. So a one stop command is, let’s go put on your shoes. So as we’re saying, as we’re encouraging them to go put on their shoes, we’re saying, “Let’s go.” So they have to know that they’re going to go find their shoes. And they have to be able to, all the direction but also know that they’re sorting for their shoes and that the direction is to put them on.

So there is a lot going into even just that simple command. And as they get older, those two and three step commands, okay, go upstairs and change into your pajamas. Now they have to go upstairs and stay focused on the task of going upstairs and then going into the drawer to find their pajamas and effectively changing so that is quite a bit. And then for our even older ones, okay, go upstairs, change into your pajamas and pull out a book and climb into bed and wait for me. So that’s a little bit even higher.

They have to process through what is going on and how they’re going to execute on that, but it also comes to WH questions, so what would you like for lunch? Now, if we said to a three year old, “Would you like peanut butter or would you like ham and cheese?” They only have two choices to choose from so that’s a little bit different of a question, which one do you like versus what do you like. It’s very open ended so then the child then has to sort through all of their food choices but also all of their lunch choices versus knowing which ones are appropriate for breakfast versus which ones are appropriate for lunch.

There is quite a bit going on and it really depends on how we ask that question to our little ones.

Amy: Oh my goodness. So much in that. Okay, so then let me ask you this, is there a benefit to starting out with our younger kids and giving them some of those simpler like, do you want a ham and cheese or peanut butter? And giving them that simpler question and then are we working towards developing something where we can say, “What would you like for lunch?” And what is the process for that if it’s healthy to get to that more open space where we can give them those more open ended questions?

Lenora: Some of the times we’re doing it naturally and sometimes we’re saying, “What do you want for lunch? What do you want for lunch?” And other times they are overwhelmed because they have to sort through so much. So when you notice that your little one is overwhelmed by the open ended question, going back to a simpler way is much easier. And we tend to not really think like this. This is my job to think like this, which way am I breaking down my question.

So as parents we love to offer our children choices, which is a great thing. But sometimes there are too much choices and it overwhelms them and they don’t know what to do. And then before you know it, you’re having goldfish and Fruit-by-the-Foot for supper. And they don’t understand that that’s a snack thing. But now we’ve given them the option to choose. So when we can give our children the choice, the power to choose, that’s a great thing. You as the parent or guardian also have power in what am I going to offer them? So when it’s a simpler one as in here are your two choices, do you want orange juice or apple juice?

Do you want this snack or this snack? That’s a lot easier and then it can get into, okay, let’s go to the pantry. Let’s open the cabinet, which snack do we want? When we’re opening the cabinet and we’re going, “What do you want”, the nice thing is that you’ve now given them a visual. So that’s a step up from just two choices and holding up orange juice bottle and apple juice bottle. Now you’ve opened up the closet that they have to then sort which one is a snack. But then they get to recognize visually which one it is. So that can be really helpful, versus if they’re on the couch.

Let’s say you have a five year old who’s sitting on the couch with their book and you go, “Okay, what are we going to have for lunch?” They don’t have any input. That is a complete recall from memory of what they would like to have for lunch. But they do get more complex. The best things to do if you’re noticing your child is getting overwhelmed, break it down a little bit simpler and a little bit simpler for them, even the most simple ones are yes or no. Are you hungry?

And that’s a good way to be able to, if you’re noticing that this is just way too much, go back to simpler choices, go back to offering choices or even go all the way back to yes and no. And that can be really useful in the event that they’re having a meltdown. And you know for sure that they can answer what they want for lunch but because they’re in the middle of a meltdown, it’s too much. So then we offer them those choices and we make it a bit easier on them.

Amy: This is so good. Okay, so the visual could be helpful, alright, I love it. Okay, so let’s talk too about expressive language maybe at those ages, so starting in our preschool, kinder, maybe even going earlier than that and toddler, what does expressive language look like at those ages?

Lenora: Absolutely. And so especially our rule of thumb is usually your one year old will have one word vocabulary type things. They’re not going to go, “I would like some juice today.” They’re going to go, “Juice.”

And as a one year old that’s very appropriate. When you start to get to those two year olds and three year olds, what you would like to see is two years old, two word combinations. So it will go from juice to more juice. And for your three year old, I want juice. And then for your four year old, I want juice, please. Building upon that.

You’re going to see that vocabulary expansion and that’s a great thing. That grammatical structure, especially when you have around that 24 month mark, up to that four year old mark you’re typically going to see a massive language explosion and that’s a great thing. And it can start as early as 18 months. But when you’re going to start seeing that build of expansion and vocabulary, it’s usually in that timeframe and that’s wonderful. How can we encourage that? If your little one’s saying, “More juice”, you can then say, “You would like more juice? More juice, please.”

And just offering it, they don’t have to repeat you at that early age because they are supposed to be where they’re supposed to be. That’s a great thing. And always look up the guidelines as a wonderful guideline, the stages of where your child should be is wonderful. But keep in mind they’re a guideline. So when they say, “More juice.” And you go, “More juice, please. Great. Thank you so much for asking, more juice, please.” All you did was just go, “More juice, please.” You added onto it and that’s really great because you’re offering that additional language. And that’s how we build vocabulary, by offering it.

As your two year old starts to get to your three year old, you’re going to start to hear that expansion and they’re going to start to pick up on this, please. This is where I should say please. This is where I should say thank you, and that’s wonderful. As you go from three year old to four year old, you’re going to continue to hear that build. And as you as the parent or guardian offer that grammatical structure, offer that grammatical format of what that sentence should sound like.

Amy: That’s so cool. Okay, so then when they pick it up and start adding that on, is that when we kind of just maybe know that maybe they’re ready for us to start offering a little bit more and offering the next word and the next add-on?

Lenora: Absolutely. And a good rule of thumb is to narrate right from the beginning. Oftentimes people say, “I’m pregnant.” I’m like, “Great, start talking.” Because that’s what a language rich environment is. When they’re immersed in verbal information and in their language that they’re going to be speaking or if it’s multiple languages, that’s great, keep offering it, very typically developing children. But also for all children even if they’re not typically developing, that’s okay. What you’re doing is you’re offering language. Now, we are born with the ability to understand language.

That being said, there needs to be language input for our brain to make cohesive sense. And we can’t come down to the cellular development of okay, this is where they understand, at this age they understand I. And at this age they understand more. It’s that information that’s going in and that’s a great thing. This is why talking to your child, telling them, “I’m going to pick you up. I’m going to lay you down. I’m going to change your diaper.” Telling them what you’re doing, telling them where they’re going, telling them why they’re going there.

All wonderful things to do to keep talking with your child and sharing that information. And that being said another great thing to do is to offer the opportunity for them to speak. So I can just go da-da-da and keep talking. Then my children will not understand when it’s their turn. So to encourage that back and forth. And to, especially when they’re young, to have that back and forth, model your baby. Your baby is going to be modeling you, you model your baby. And as you do, what you’re doing is you’re teaching this turn taking component. But you’re also offering your vocal flexion, you’re also offering your facial expression.

There’s so much going on that we talk about it for ages on end about how much is actually developing. But to sum it up, offer language, offer that talking, but also offer the opportunity for them to talk.

Amy: This is so good. And that back and forth is part of that practicing that receptive, expressive. Okay, this is so good. Let me ask you this, what role do books play, reading with your children or taking them to have experiences that might build and give them exposure to a new language say like going to museums or following things that they’re interested in and then kind of building that over time, what role would those things play?

Lenora: Well, I absolutely love reading. So when it comes to reading and writing, reading is the receptive part of language. So this is another component, writing is the expression of language. So it’s really important to do that. And the great thing is, is to offer children books early on, let them explore, let them just be present in those words, in those letters and offering them information. That’s a great thing. It’s okay that when you’re old enough to understand, that this is exactly the word that says flicked and this is the f, and the u and t sound, that’s okay.

But what you’re doing is offering. So now as they’re doing that, as you’ve now been offering throughout that component, when you’re starting to build language, exposure to books, even if you make up your words as you’re reading to your child. Even if you have a really lengthy paragraph and you know, I don’t have all the time in the world to read this paragraph, make up your own story. It offers more language involvement. It offers more flexibility. It offers more imagination. This is a great thing.

When it comes to reading and them starting to learn to read, make it as fun, as enjoyable as you possibly can. Learning happens when it’s fun. It doesn’t have to be this structure, you have to sit down and you have to read for 30 minutes and you’re going to sit here until it’s done. Doesn’t have to be like that. When we can make it fun and when we can make it engaging and a connection with our child, it’s going to be even better.

So when you get to go out into the community, let’s say you go to a museum or you go to the park and they have those boards where they’re explaining to you what animals are here, or when the park was developed. Show them what it is, read with them. Those are often great connections. Let’s say you went to the museum or you went to the zoo and all of a sudden now we’re talking about otters, especially if your child is enjoying what they’re learning about. You went to the zoo, you got to see otters. If they’re still really enthusiastic about it, get a book about it, find ways to connect with the things that they enjoy.

If they’re not enthusiastic about dinosaurs, that’s okay, no problem. Find ways to go to the bookstore. Go to a Thrift store. Go to another library and find what they’re engaged in. What are they moving towards? What are they moving away from? That’s okay, they don’t have to love everything, but move towards the things that are fun for them, those are great things. So let’s say you went to the zoo, now you love otters. A great way to help build that expansion and build that memory is the next day, what did we see yesterday? What was that animal again?

See if they can pull up that information of what they experienced, those new words that they learned, the experiences that they had while they were at the zoo, whether they talked to somebody or they saw an otter do something silly. Pull that information back again, because what that’s going to do is that’s going to help improve their recall skills of what they learned but also it’s going to reprocess it through their mind and body and that’s a great thing. Because we want them to learn, want them to gain knowledge and they absolutely can.

Amy: Yes. And it strengthens those synapses, those connections and makes them just a better pathway, so good. And I love that you brought up making learning to read enjoyable because that’s a topic in our community that we talk about a lot and we’ve developed a play based phonics program for that exact reason of building connection and fun and play and learning to read, yes, because it matters.

Lenora: That is awesome, I absolutely love that. It does. It does. What other things do you guys do in that group?

Amy: What we do, it’s a play based program and it has the structure that they need for phonics to kind of build those decoding skills and all of that, but it is just so hands-on and centered in play based. And so we’re working with children that just are learning how to read for the first time or kids that have really struggled in other programs because they become bored or really are having a hard time. And just bringing in this element of play and fun so that they’re enjoying it. They’re actually asking to be able to do it.

And the stories we’re getting from teachers and parents, it’s just so amazing, because kids are actually loving learning to read. It’s so good. So I love that we brought that up.

Lenora: That’s incredible, especially, completely, especially when they’re with other children and then they’re also learning from other guardians or other teachers or other parents, whatever the case may be. They’re finding new, I love that you even said that too, neural pathways to make it fun and to make it engaging, to bring it to life. And when that happens, learning becomes so much easier and so much more fun.

Amy: Yes, we’re on the same page, I love it. Let’s talk about types of questions to build as we’re going. I’ve talked about this on a previous episode a little bit, but what kinds of questions do we ask our kids when we’re having those conversations back and forth to kind of help build and grow their language?

Lenora: WH questions are great. So we have what questions that can tend to be a bit more concrete. What are they wearing on their head? They’re wearing a hat. When you can start making it more fun and more playful, well, where do you think he’s going before you turn the page. What do you think he might see when he gets there? That’s future pacing in the imaginative component. Seeing what else they’ll come up with because in doing that it allows them to be more flexible in their thinking, but it also allows them to be more creative.

And they can also start building their prediction skills, and what might happen next? Or, oh, boy, they ran into a problem, how do you think they’re going to solve it? What are three solutions that they might come up with before they flip to the next page or even after you read the book. Well, what would you have done or, gee, what kind of animal would you have had as a pet? And if you’re reading Curious George, well, what’s another cool animal? Being creative and asking them questions in a conversational genuine of interest way.

When we get really critical and what did you learn at school today? That can really have them power down. But I’m curious, what do you think would have happened in that jovial, that exciting way. I think this is going to happen, what do you think is going to happen? Making it fun and having that back and forth will allow them that space to really be creative and not pressured in the, you need to give me an answer. It’s a, what do you think? Come up with an answer of any kind. And that’s a great thing because they’re not trying to be right or wrong and you’re just opening it for conversation.

When you can just explore and play, they don’t have to worry about I’m going to get the answer wrong. And if they’re worried about they’re going to get the answer wrong, it can actually cause them to power down. And to not have those creative thinking skills because all they can think is, what if I’m wrong versus it’s just fun, it’s just play. When you can keep it open and lighthearted and fun and exploring, those are so much better states to encourage than ‘right or wrong’.

Amy: That’s so interesting because I think so many of us that are parents that have asked a child, “What happened at school today”, and we watch and just see that shut down and I don’t know or something. Okay, so let me ask you this, because one of the things that I’ve tried when I get that response because I’ve gotten that response because I think that’s just like, I don’t know, we feel like it’s good parenting or something to ask our kids, “Well, what happened at school today?”

So sometimes when I see that response, one of the things that I’ve tried and I’m curious to your thoughts on this now is I will ask kind of an outrageous kind of silly question like, “Well, did you ride an elephant?” Or I’ll just open it up to something completely silly in an attempt to try to just get them to kind of relax about it and maybe just giggle and then maybe think of something that actually happened that day. Is something like that helpful or is that just kind of?

Lenora: Absolutely, I love that. And especially when you can make it a game. I bet you rode an elephant at school. Did that happen? And that way they’re coming up with a yes or a no, but it’s also really silly and that’s a great thing to then put it on you and say, “I wonder if this happened today.” And that way they can recall of what they were doing and yes, it did happen or, “If you rode an elephant, did you go to the moon?”

And making it fun and playful is definitely a phenomenal, phenomenal way to encourage them to talk about their day. And that’s absolutely outstanding.

Another thing I like to do is, “What was your favorite part?” And especially not necessarily right after school and I like to do this as an adult, but also with children, what are your three favorite things that happened today? Or what were three really cool things that happened today? And pointing them out, and especially when you’re out on a walk. So let’s say you see a dandelion coming up through the crack in the concrete. The dandelion, even though it’s a weed. It had to do a lot of work to do that. And to point it out as something unique, pointing it out as something fun.

It doesn’t have to be this astronomical, “Oh my God, Spiderman showed up at my school.” It can be something that just was really cool and really genuine or wow, “I really like that.” And when we can make them a part of our day or, “My favorite part was my peanut butter sandwich.” “Awesome. Your favorite part was your peanut butter sandwich.” Reinforcing that, as you’re reinforcing that and as you’re repeating what they’re saying and echoing it, you’re reminding them. And they’re also understanding, seen, heard and they’re important and that they’re valid.

And that is a beautiful thing because that’s ultimately what we all want at our core, to be seen and heard and validated. And those are great ways to encourage that and to support that and to not come across. We don’t want to come across as this very pressure-full testing, testing, testing constantly kind of way. If you have children then it’s likely because you wanted to have them. So to make it fun and to make it as loving and enjoyable and as pleasant of an experience as possible.

Amy: It’s so good. Okay, I love this conversation. This is amazing. I wanted to discuss one other thing that we had kind of talked about previously and that was we talked about different kinds of language like a peer to peer language versus a peer to authority language. Talk to me a little bit about that.

Lenora: Absolutely. So peer to peer language is when your kids are communicating with other kids and that’s a great thing, whether they’re on the playground or they’re in the classroom or you’re having a playdate. Listen to how they’re talking to each other and this is truly, truly so important, especially with today’s world of so much technology. We are social creatures, we naturally want to communicate with each other. But we also need to develop that part of our brain and to develop that skill.

Especially when we’re young, when we want our toy, we want to be able to speak up and get our toy back or at least share our toy and engage with another one and have that back and forth imaginative play. Have that pretend play. I loved Barbies growing up and me and my friend would play Barbies for hours on end. But to be able to play with another child or with more than one child is truly an important skill. And then to understand when an adult is present and to have that appropriate shift of child and authority.

So, “Hello, nice to meet you”, whatever the case may be, Mrs. so and so, may I please. Having that shift in conversation and being able to ask questions or to be comfortable in talking with an adult and understanding their manners and understanding how to ask them questions and understanding how to communicate with them when parents, guardian, mom, dad, whoever the case may be is not there. So especially when you have kids in the neighborhood and other kids that you’re playing on the playground, “Is it okay if they come over?”

Or if they come up and say, “Excuse me, I need help.” Asking for help and being able to understand the appropriate people to go to or help when you’re out in the community or when you’re in the store, knowing, I don’t just go to any person. Especially when they’re six, seven years old, you find the person with the uniform on or you know how to get to the checkout so that way you can ask, “Hey, I lost my parent, can you help me, please?” We want them to be able to do that, that’s so important. And not to just go off with any stranger. Those are truly important skills.

And they’re skills that we’re not necessarily teaching unless we’re putting them in that situation. It’s a good thing to put them in the situation. And we want to encourage them, that they have a voice, that they can speak for themselves and that they’re okay in that communication and that they can convey what they’re wanting or needing.

Amy: I love it. Okay, so we do that through giving them opportunities to communicate with adults and maybe helping model that for them and help them become comfortable in having those conversations. This has been so amazing. Okay, before we get off, tell me, is there something I should have asked you that I haven’t asked you yet, that you want to leave with our listeners?

Lenora: If you have questions or concerns about your child’s speech and language development, please feel free to reach out to us at Better Speech. We are an online speech therapy company and we provide speech therapy services throughout the entire US. We’re in every state, but we also offer a complimentary consultation.

So if you’re worried if your child has delays or if you’re worried if your child isn’t meeting their markers. You are welcome to call us, simply visit betterspeech.com and you will get in touch with us as early as the very next business day. And you can ask your questions and we will do our very best to answer your questions and to guide you with additional information. A huge thing, I don’t know if you’ve ever rolled over at 2:00am with questions, but I’ve rolled over at 2:00am with questions and been told, “Okay, well, you’ll have to wait three months to see the professional or six months”, whatever the case may be.

It’s a little anxiety riding for me. So I’m incredibly proud to be a part of this company, which is Better Speech, but also that we offer so many wonderful things at betterspeech.com, but also ultimately you can speak with a professional as early as the next day. So please feel free to reach out to us if you have concerns and you get to follow us on social media and ask all your questions that you’d like to. So we are there and if you guys need anything, you know how to reach us.

Amy: That is so amazing. And we will definitely include the links for that in the show notes so people can just click on that and find you there. Thank you so, so much for coming on. It has been such a pleasure to talk with you today.

Lenora: Thank you so much, Amy, it was great spending time with you.

Well, I hope you found that episode as enjoyable and helpful as I did. If you remember, in the conversation, Lenora and I talked about our play-based reading phonics program, that is called Play to Read. And it is an amazing program for teaching your child to read in a play-based, really fun way with also that structure of phonics. And so you can find that at playtoreadfun.com. Go check it out and see if it’s something that would work well for you. There’s reviews from other parents and teachers that are using it with their kids in classrooms and homes all over the country and around the world.

Go check it out again, that is playtoreadfun.com and I can’t wait to see you there. Thank you for hanging out with me today for this fun chat on Raising Healthy Kid Brains. If you want to see more of what we’re doing to support kiddos and their amazing brains, come visit us on our website, planningplaytime.com. See you next week.