Ep #74: IEPs and 504s: What You Need to Know with April Rehrig

What is the difference between an IEP and a 504 plan? What even are these things? When do you need them? How do you know? If you’ve ever had a kid that is a little bit different or is struggling in the school system, these are things that you need to know about and it can be a little tricky to navigate. I’m speaking from experience.

I have the most amazing guest on today, April Rehrig is here. She is the founder of Rise Educational Advocacy and Consulting. And she helps families and teachers successfully communicate at the IEP and the 50 table without stress. She is incredibly knowledgeable. It was so delightful to get to talk to her because I can tell that she just knows and her passion is helping parents be able to figure this out. What do you need to document?

How do you ask for help when you notice something’s different with your child or that they’re struggling with something specific in the school system. Are they struggling with reading or something that they’re having a hard time with? If something just feels off, she’s going to tell you exactly what to do and how to get help. This is such a resource, I’m so grateful that she came on today. I hope you will find it as helpful as I did. It’s coming up right after this.

Welcome to the Raising Healthy Kid Brains podcast where moms and teachers come to learn all about kids’ brains, how they work, how they learn, how they grow and simple tips and tricks for raising the most resilient, kind, smart, compassionate kids we can. All while having lots of grace and compassion for ourselves because you know what? We all really need and deserve that too. I am your host, Amy Nielson. Let’s get ready to start the show.

Amy: Welcome to the show, April. I’m so happy to have you on today.

April: Thank you, Amy, for having me.

Amy: This is going to be a good conversation, I can tell. So today we’re going to be talking about IEPs and 504s and things that I feel are a little bit intimidating and scary if you don’t know about them but are really important and really helpful. And so I’m excited to have this conversation. Thank you for coming to talk to us. And before we get started, just can you tell us a little bit about you and how you got to where you are and what you do and how you serve people in the world?

April: Sure. So I started out like probably many of your moms did, growing up and I was like, “Man, I want to be a teacher.” And so I grew up in a family of educators. And I started volunteering when I was a preteen in a special education school, and I fell in love. And I was like, “This is my thing.” But like many of your other listeners out there, who maybe were teachers, I didn’t know about special education. They didn’t really talk about it going through the teaching program. And I kind of heard about it, but I didn’t really know what it was.

And my first year of teaching, I got like many of your moms who have been teachers before, I got mostly boys in my class and mostly kids who struggle and mostly the kids that no other teacher wanted. And I quickly realized, wow, I really like working with this population. This is really my thing and this is what I want to do. And I found out what a school psychologist was. I found her in a closet like many of us used to work in. I quickly realized this is my thing, especially when I referred several kids to get tested and most of the kids didn’t qualify.

And the reason surprised me, Amy, was because most of the kids didn’t qualify because either (a) they were gifted and even though they were failing, they were gifted. And (b) I wasn’t really clearly understanding what their needs were. And I just assumed when kids were struggling, it’s because they had a learning disability and it wasn’t because I wasn’t teaching them the way they really needed. So I fell in love with school psychology. I became a school psychologist for 20 years. And I started raising my family, I have three boys. And then I went through a divorce, remarried so there’s seven kids between my husband and I.

And I really found that going through the IEP process as a mom, being a school psych and a teacher. That the meetings are frustrating just like you’re saying. It’s really confusing and really the parents and the students feel like they can’t meaningfully participate. Everything is overwhelming. And until you’re in it yourself as a mom, you’re like, “What is this place? I don’t know what I’m doing.” And you go walk into this room and there’s 20 people there and you just start crying because you’re like, “This is whacko.”

So I decided to leave the field and I thought I’m going to make it easier for parents. I’m going to kind of show them and take them behind the scenes. And so I have online workshops. I have IEP coaching, but unlike other advocates, if you’ve maybe heard of an advocate, I don’t just kind of do stuff for you. I really walk you through the process. And I make it easier with templates and tools for parents and teachers by taking you behind the scenes, showing you what it’s like. And then ultimately crafting education plans that are really more strength based, person centered.

And don’t just talk about all the deficits, because if your moms have been in an IEP meeting before, all they hear is all the things that their child can’t do. They’re not doing this. They’re not doing that. What’s wrong with your child? That’s not the way we talk about kids. And so I’m trying to get back to the basics when it comes to educational plans, lifting the veil of special education and ultimately making it better and easier for families to thrive.

Amy: Okay, I love so many things that you just said. And I’m very excited to have this conversation. So let’s talk about getting into the space of wondering if you need an IEP in the first place. So you talked about there’s different challenges. Sometimes we have kids that are gifted or that are also, how do you know, how do you know when to seek out an IEP as a parent? How do you know when to even start there? And maybe tell us, for anyone who doesn’t know what an IEP is.

April: Yeah, these are all great questions, Amy. I can tell you that so many families, thousands of families across the country are asking this every day. Because there are about, it’s kind of crazy, but 15% of all students in public schools have an IEP. So if that’s 15% of how many millions of kids, think about how many millions of families are asking the question that you just asked me. This is a common question and you are not alone. So an IEP is called an Individual Education Plan.

Now, every state has different rules for what it looks like, how to call it. In Texas, there’s different rules than in Oklahoma. But federal mandate through IDA basically regulates and offers these special education plans. If you think about the word special education, it tends to be kind of a loaded word. Because people are like, “Wait, is that a separate classroom? Is that a place?” It actually isn’t. So an IEP, if you really think about it, it’s an education plan, just if you think about a business plan or something else. And it’s supposed to be catered to the child.

So if your child is twice exceptional and perhaps they’re gifted, but they struggle with dyslexia, then the IEP should be addressing and remediating their needs, meaning offering support services and goals to address that. Now, other children might have ADHD, and perhaps they’re really struggling with behavior. They’re getting referrals to the office all the time. They can’t finish their work, so their IEP needs to address their needs. So an IEP in essence, it’s kind of a blueprint or a how to set up plan for what the child needs, when and how is it going to happen.

Amy: Okay, this is just mind-blowing because I think so many of us need this, but we just didn’t know and didn’t know what it was supposed to look like? I recently had a child on an IEP plan and I had one that was honestly just top of her class of everything but had a really hard time with some speech stuff. And so she was on an IEP just for speech. And she was only there for a couple of months and she loved it and she’s such a hard worker and she did great and graduated. And she has her certificate and her graduation. She was so happy, was the greatest thing ever.

But yeah, I mean, even when we have kids that are doing really, really well in some areas, sometimes they have something that’s a struggle. And here’s where we talk about education being this thing that kind of feels like a box and everyone’s supposed to fit the box. I feel like IEP is the space where we can kind of individualize it a little bit around they have a specific need in a specific area for some reason. We can meet that if we know how to do that and take away some of the, maybe the stigma around what that is and what that means. I don’t know. I’ve found it to be very beautiful.

And then I have a child on a 504 as well. And so anyway I’m excited to get into that too, but I love this. So if you have a kid that’s twice exceptional, you can meet those specific needs, which is so amazing. So if you have a child that you feel is struggling, is this something you go and talk to their teacher about? Is this something you go to the principal? Where do you go? If you feel your child could benefit from an IEP and have some specific catered, let’s meet this individual need for this child, where do we go? How do we start this?

April: That’s a great question, knowing where to start. So with most families I work with, there’s kind of three different things. The first are people that are like, “Something is off. I don’t know what’s going on, but I think they need help.” The second is what you’re talking about, which is they need an IEP, but where do I start? And the third is they’re in the IEP, but they’re stuck. So when it comes to the second one where you’re like, “I know they need an IEP, but how do they need to start?”

I want you and I want your listeners to kind of think of an ocean. And the world of special education to get to what I call IEP land is like an ocean. It’s not a roadmap. It’s not a clear cut way. Every state has their own rules and regulations. And honestly, a lot of schools have a lot of barriers, meaning they don’t really tell you what it looks like, how to get there. You don’t really know. You get all these crazy paperwork, so you have to think of it like an ocean. In order to get to IEP land, you’re going to have to really push yourself.

So what I mean by push yourself is, the schools don’t want to be nefarious, but they are overloaded, they have a lot of programs and supports. A lot of schools and districts have what’s called RTI, which is maybe your child gets [inaudible] ready or all these interventions. And so they put all these kind of rules and regulations in place. And in essence, it makes it really challenging to get the IEP. So what you have to think about is, you’re kind of laying a case.

So laying a case, meaning you have to tell the school exactly what you want and you have to document what you want and why. If you don’t do that, maybe you’ll talk to your teacher and say, “I need an IEP.” Well, that doesn’t mandate that they have to do it. Or maybe you get to what I call an SST, which is a meeting in your school and you’re like, “I’m really struggling.” And the school’s like, “Well, let’s do interventions.” The next year, “Well, let’s do interventions. Well, let’s wait and see.” It could be, honestly, 10 years until you get it done.

And it’s not that you have to be mean or fussy, but you have to know exactly what to say and how to say it to get to IEP land. So when it comes to getting an IEP. There’s kind of two different things that parents need to do in order to get a life preserver and to get out of that drowning ocean where your child is drowning, whether they’re twice exceptional, they’re struggling or you know in your heart that they’re behind. So you have to identify there’s a need for testing, meaning you’re telling the school, “I think my child might have a disability.”

Now, disability is a loaded word, but in the terms of education world, they still use the word. So they have a disability, or perhaps they already have a diagnosis, but the school doesn’t know or you haven’t really said anything. And then the other area in the life preserver is you have to say, “You know what? I think my child needs special education services, they need an assessment.” So in that life preserver you’re kind of saying, “My child needs testing”, and why. And you have to put it into writing.

So you have to tell the school if you’re having a conference with a teacher, “I think my child might have a disability. I think my child might need special education assessment.” And you have to put it in writing. If you don’t do that, Amy, what ends up happening is then you might never get tested.

Amy: Oh, my goodness. So putting it in writing is different. So notifying the school in writing that you need this. Now, is this something, does the school arrange the testing or is this something that you get through your pediatrician or something like that? Do you go find your own provider to do testing, or will the school do that?

April: That’s a really good question. So when it comes to IEPs and special education, it actually has to do with a public school and then they’re the ones who are in charge of testing and assessing. But you have to put it into writing. If you don’t put into writing, Amy, what will happen is, “Okay, that’s really cool. You want testing. Let’s talk about it in a month.” Or, “Well, let’s do it later, or let’s wait and see.” Many of our parents may be very familiar and that happened to my kids. That happens to 90% of clients.

So if you put it into writing, again, it’s not being fussy, but it puts the school on notice and actually, the schools are required to respond. So when it comes to the testing process, if you think about there’s a life preserver, the next step is a boat. And there’s these people in the boat that are looking out and that’s the school. And that’s what’s called child find. So that’s where the school is required to respond or locate and identify kids that have an IEP.

So child find means the school has to find these kids or the parent has to come and say, “Hey, I think my child might be an IEP. Hey, you need to do some testing.” So that’s that boat and in order to get to IEP land, you’ve got to direct that boat as a parent and you’ve got to tell the school, “I think I might need it.” Now, the school can say no. They can give you prior written notice. They can say, “Let’s wait and see.” But they have to respond. If you tell it in writing or you casually kind of mention it or you talk about it, it’s not going to happen.

Amy: So going into that a little bit deeper, what does that look like? Do you have a template for that? And then who are you notifying, is it the teacher, is it the principal, who is this notification in writing going to?

April: That’s a great thing. Yes, I do have templates and I do have request letter templates that I’m going to be offering. Teachers pay teachers to walk parents through the process. And it basically tells the parent, here’s what you need to say. Here’s what you need to look for. And here’s where you need to write the letter. But the most important thing is parents need to know is that you put it into writing and you notify the highest ranking person at your site. So if a child goes to public school, that would be your principal.

Now, if a child goes to private school, you have to really look at where is your home school, the public school? Who’s the principal there? Where is the district person and who do you send the letter to for that case?

Amy: Okay, this is already getting so good. So you make it through this and you make it through that journey and you get to where the school is doing testing, it’s time to kind of set up the IEP. And you get called into a meeting and there’s all the people there and all the paperwork. Can you talk to me a little bit and tell our listeners what that can look like and how to maybe prepare themselves for that moment?

April: Yes, you’re laughing because I know you’ve been through the process and it’s very overwhelming and it feels absolutely terrifying. I’ll just be honest with you. It’s absolutely terrifying. And so what it looks like is that a bunch of the different team members are doing testing. So testing meaning they could be doing IQ testing. Perhaps you’re requesting speech and language like what happened to you, Amy? So they’re doing different types of evaluations. But what you need to know as a parent is the testing is really based on the letter that you write.

So when you request for testing, you need to tell the school, “I want testing with OT. I want testing in executive functioning. I am suspecting dyslexia, I would like testing in this area.” So unless you tell the school what you want, they’re going to do what’s called their standard battery, which is an IQ test, academics. You need to get all in there and say exactly what you want. And so once the testing is done then you have an eligibility meeting.

So just because you have the testing, Amy, it doesn’t mean that your child is going to get the IEP. In fact to be really transparent and honest, many families who come to me went through the process and we’re like, “Oh my gosh, it was so amazing.” And they get to the meeting and they’re like, okay, we spent 120 days, because in some states it’s 120 days, waiting for this IEP. We spent two years to get here. And they’re like, “This is great. The testing is awesome, your child doesn’t need an IEP.” So you have to prepare yourself.

So what I mean by prepare is, you work with the assessors during the evaluation process. You request drafts before the meeting, which you can do because when you get to the eligibility meeting you’re right, Amy. There’s going to be probably 40 to 50 pages of paperwork. Usually the meetings are half an hour to an hour. They’re talking very quickly. And then by the time the meeting’s done you’re like, “What happened?” And this is with lawyers and doctors, all different types of people I’ve worked with. Because they’re using this weird language and they’re saying all these words and referring to standardized test scores.

And unlike anything else, it’s almost like you’re going to law school and yet you’ve never stepped foot in a classroom. So it’s frustrating and overwhelming and it is scary. But if you prepare for it and you do research and you kind of educate yourself, you can empower yourself so that when you get to the eligibility meeting, you’re like, “I requested for the draft. I’ve seen this paperwork before. I’ve looked at the state rules for eligibility and I’ve read the report and I know what it looks like.”

And that’s exactly why I created these workshops because I feel as a parent and a mom, it’s not fair for anybody to go into a meeting unprepared. And if you can educate yourself, it’s so much easier and you can really feel like you can make an informed decision for your child instead of not knowing the process, getting handed the paperwork. And then you leave and you’re like, “I didn’t like that meeting. That was not cool.”

Amy: That that didn’t go how I pictured in my head. Okay, let me ask you this question. Is there any value to having that testing done outside of the school? So when I recently had a child do some pretty extensive psychological testing, she was diagnosed as on the spectrum, and twice exceptional and some of these things. I felt like that experience was good. I don’t know. My experience there was, because I think they walked me through everything. They talked me through all of those paperwork and all the numbers.

And we kind of I feel had a little more time together maybe than it would have been in a school situation. So I’m just wondering what advantages, disadvantages maybe to going a separate route and doing it through an insurance company and a more self-directed route versus going through the school. Can you talk to me about advantages, disadvantages there?

April: It’s a great question you ask and I get this question all the time, Amy. So yes, there are a lot of advantages to getting a private assessment. So when I talk about a private assessment, it means something that you pay for usually out of pocket or through insurance. Insurance can be tricky because a lot of times they don’t pay for an educational assessment, but they’ll pay for a neuro psych or a psychiatric evaluation or things of that nature. But when you get a private assessment, it is different.

So an assessment through special education, through the IEP is going to look for educational need. And qualification to get the IEP is based on usually 13 eligibility criteria. So it’s not a medical diagnosis. They can look for, for example, characteristics of dyslexia, but they can’t say, “Your child is dyslexic or your child has an autism diagnosis.” But what a private assessment can do is give you the diagnosis and usually their tests are much more broad based, they’re very in-depth. Usually they give a lot more testing. And you’re absolutely right, they’ll sit down with you and go over this stuff.

They’ll oftentimes make very detailed recommendations. So what your listeners need to know is, if you go out and get a private assessment and you want the school to know about it in order to get maybe a 504 plan or to get accommodations or an IEP. Then you need to be very systematic and strategic in what you do. So what I’m saying is that you need to give it to the school and put it in writing, “I have gotten this private assessment.” My child has, let’s say, dyslexia. “Either I would like an IEP or I would like you to review and consider this information.”

So what you’re doing, Amy, is you’re telling the school, “My child is exceptional and I would like you to do something about it.” If you don’t share the report or you don’t talk about it, the school may never know. And God forbid, let’s say your child has ADHD and you’ve got this amazing report and spent all this money and then they’re getting suspended, they’re having all these disciplined things. The school didn’t know that your child had special needs.

So to tell them about it is protecting your child and also putting the school on notice, “Hey, you need to treat this child amazingly well. And also you need to protect this child because look at all these exceptional things that they can do.” And also to protect them if they need it.

Amy: This is so good. Okay, can I ask you this question for our listeners? Can you tell us what’s the difference between IEP and a 504 plan? Maybe just walk through what that is.

April: Yes, this is the most common question that I get on my blogs and reels all the time. And I am laughing just because it’s every person’s question, and there’s a lot of information online if you Google it and you go down the Google rabbit hole. And at the same time it confuses you because you’re like, “Well, wait, what?” When it comes to IEP and 504 plan, they’re both two different types of education plans. They’re both incorporated under what’s called FAPE, which means Free Appropriate Public Education.

So in the realm of public schools, they need to offer FAPE. So if a child is struggling, whether they need a 504 or an IEP, the school needs to offer a plan. So in essence a 504 plan is going to address a child’s difficulties by making it more accessible and an ability to access the curriculum. In essence, an IEP is going to have specialized academic instruction, goals, due process proceedings, and it’s more robust in terms of remediating the deficits through services and supports.

Now, a 504 and an IEP can both offer services. A lot of people don’t know that. You can actually have a 504 and an IEP at the same time. A lot of people don’t know that as well. However, when it comes to deciding what’s best for your child, you really need to decide, well, does my child, are they so far behind that they need services and support? Or is it that they need some accommodations and access to the curriculum? Whether it’s accommodations or maybe transportation or maybe supports and devices which would be a 504 plan.

So a 504 plan and an IEP can both start at preschool and go all the way up through high school and actually post high school if you aren’t able to graduate and you need secondary support or transitional support until you age out.

Amy: Wow. So that was amazing and I feel it’s so helpful. So if I’m just restating, 504 is kind of more about accommodations, accessibility kinds of things. And IEP and maybe this is simplifying a little bit, but an IEP is kind of more around remediation and extra services and support to meet specific educational goals. Is that kind of a reasonable short summary?

April: Yes. And they both intersect in different ways. They both have legal protections, but in essence you’re exactly right.

Amy: That’s so amazing. I love that there’s resources. This is so, so helpful and so good to know. We are out of time, but this is so good. I know we are going to have listeners that have more questions because we just were only able to ask a few. But if I want to send our listeners to you to get more information, more help to be able to watch your reels you’re putting out, all your information and get access to those templates and come into your programs. How do I send people to you? How do we find you?

April: So they can follow me on Instagram @riseedadvocacy for my reels and templates. Or they can check out my website for my templates, my do-it-yourself workshops, or if they’re interested in working with me at riseeducationaladvocacy.com. And if they want to do a free consult, it’s riseeducationaladvocacy.com\contact.

Amy: Amazing. And we will definitely include those links in the show notes so that people can just click because remembering all those things is hard when you have enough going on already. So we’ll have links. You can find it really easily. Thank you so much, April, for coming on and talking to me today, this has been just massive. It’s been so helpful, thank you.

April: You’re so welcome, Amy.

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Thank you for hanging out with me today for this fun chat on Raising Healthy Kid Brains. If you want to see more of what we’re doing to support kiddos and their amazing brains, come visit us on our website planningplaytime.com. See you next week.